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Tips on making a good deathrun map?


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#1 mista_bojjob

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 15:37

I'm thinking of making a Deathrun map and I was wondering if there are any tips for making one or anything to stay away from.

 

For example, around how many traps does a good map have and what sort of stuff makes a map fun?

 

Any tips would be appreciated.

 

Also which game is a good one to use for making it in (I'm making it in counter-strike at the moment and then i'll move it over to gmod)


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#2 ZONIC

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 18:39

If you are going to put holes in the ground please dont make too many, its fucking annoying when you fall in one.



#3 BOT Dan

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 20:33

Tips I've gathered after trying to create one myself (that I still need to finish):

- Trap reset time needs to be way over 30 seconds, a minute is the rough minimum it would seem (note 1 minute after the trap has fully finished generally)

- Make the map interesting, don't make it linear. Make the map have some changes in it such as corners and elevation. 

- Scenery is god just don't let it get in the way of the map. Theme-ing the map is a good idea.

- A mixture of high and low-damaging traps, don't make them all super powered or just rubbish.

 

Just keep trying at it, you probably need over 20 traps and generally if you have never mapped before (I have no idea of your experience with Hammer) you will probably scrap the map and start over at least 5 times. It's all good practice. 'm not the best person to ask about mapping but I understand the fundamentals of it.



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#4 Psycix

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 20:39

I like it when a map has an AFK slayer or anti-stall system that slowly kills people that stay behind.

Say, 30 secs to 1 minute into the map it starts moving slowly, killing anyone who lags behind too far. It moves slow enough that you have plenty of time to complete the map.


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#5 The Time Rider

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 21:03

Yeah, an afk killer is awesome, just make sure it isn't too early.  Give it 30 seconds to a minute for starting and then don't make it go too fast.

 

Some thing I think:

 

-3 minutes is pretty good map length.  This should equate to about 20 traps and gives plenty of time to do an ending.

 

-Do original endings.  One really cool map that was beta tested at one point had a surf ending and everyone loved it because no one has ever done it before.  Try to think of new shit to do.

 

-Don't add music in.  Please for the love of god, don't add music in.  It might seem cool the first or second time, but eventually you have to bind a key to stopsound (or whatever the command is)

 

-Don't just make boring crusher traps.  You get tired of them after you already went through 10 of them earlier in the map.  A few is fine, but too many gets repetitive quickly.  This can also be applied to all types of traps.  Try to get a good variety.

 

-Autotraps.  Don't make shitty autotraps that just require memorizing where the floor randomly disappears beneath you.  That just pisses people off and is no fun.  A small spinner section or miniature parkour part would go a long way towards making your map memorable.

 

-Someone mentioned it earlier, but don't make all the traps instakill, but don't make them all do 5 damage.  You want all of the traps to at least do a good chunk of damage, but too many instantkill traps means that the entire server will do relatively quickly.

 

-Make it so the traps can be faked.  Nobody wants to play the cannonfodder game where people just have to sacrifice themselves to beat the map.  A few tougher traps is fun and builds a reputation for that part being particularly hard.

 

-Try to make a scenery.  Maps are a lot more fun if you can recognize where you are.  I think most people prefer to get melted by a sudden radioactive waste stream and just get crushed by a sudden dev wall.  On the same note though, don't let the scenery make the traps really hard or impossible without knowing just where to jump.  If you want to know what I mean by this, look at deathrun_imperialtomb.  The floor that suddenly falls is really hard to see where to go after it breaks.  The lava part also has a really low grate that you have to jump when you get stuck on because the map maker fucked up and made it too low.  Don't let this happen to you because most people think that the map is broken and they don'y enjoy playing on it.

 

I think that's about it for the advice I can give.  I hope I can at least help a little bit.


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#6 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 16:59

NOTE: I'm not sure how good you are at mapping, everything I've typed is meant for people who already know how to map properly.
If you need help with mapping, I suggest you read the stickies of the section you posted this thread in.

 

I would definitely not quantify map length in minutes, I'd even avoid being too aware of the amount of traps.
What matters is the amount of traps multiplied by the difficulty of those traps, the result is the difficulty of the entire map.
You could make a long map with many easy traps or a short one with many hard ones, but it's important to find a balance between the two.

Easy maps (Like Baserun that IoN made) aren't bad for the same reason that hard maps like Dark Energy aren't bad; they accommodate a different player count. Baserun is fun with 4-8 people because you actually have a chance. With over 16 people online it becomes a unplayable for the Deaths. Dark Energy sucks with under 10 people because you'll never get quite far, but they're fair and challenging for when the server is all filled up.

A voting system that takes the amount of players online into account is on its way, the creator (FRAG) is understandably busy.

TL;DR - Make a map as hard/long as you like.

(Hard and long are interchangable in Deathrun map difficulty)


I feel every Deathrun map should include at least one "skill" part where the deaths can either be of minor influence or none at all.
Preferably, this part is hard enough that on a full server (with noobs), 25-50% could die, depending on the position in the map.
These could be spinning platforms, bhop, climb, surf, timed hazards, etc.

(TimeRider called these autotraps)

Is your setting inside? Make sure every part of your "tunnel" looks different than the other. If I could make a screenshot of one of your traps and you would not be able to see which trap it is, you're doing something terribly wrong.

 

If it's outside, make sure you add plenty of scenery. Keep scenery in mind while designing the traps, but only start really polishing it until your map is technically done. That is, you finished all the traps, tested all the traps in multiplayer, and have concluded that the difficulty and amount of them is what you want.


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#7 The Time Rider

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 18:04

Oh yeah, one thing I forgot:

For the love of god, avoid stupid fucking invisible walls.  Nothing is more annoying than trying to jump somewhere only to die because of a stupid fucking invisible wall.


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“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.”-Mark Twain

#8 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 19:04

In some places, clips are mandatory and even expected though. For instance, the fence on the Death area in Marioworld, you can tell that's clipped without ever having touched it.


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#9 The Time Rider

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 21:55

yeah, shit like that is fun, but it is annoying as fuck to randomly have the edge of a trap be an invisible wall.

By all means block shit out that could be exploited.


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“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.”-Mark Twain

#10 Dr Scheisse

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 16:53

Please no tight corridors, I hate them with a passion.




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