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Let's discuss Weapon Damages.


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#1 Attacus

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    aka Keith.

Posted 21 October 2013 - 18:05

Annually, I take my time to discuss balance issues and although things never really change much because generally, everyone thinks leaving things as they are is fine and change is bad. Well, I dont.

Let's make this quick and painless before I lose your attention.

First of, the weapons that are fine:

- Deagle, AK, Mac10, AUG, both Pistols, HUGE, Scout Rifle.

Why?

Because they function exactly the way they are supposed to.
Deagle is the low ammo headshot killer.
AK the high damage spray weapon.
Mac10 the high spray close range SMG.
AUG the high range precision rifle. [Although the close range weapon damage is roughly 5% too high]
Pistols because they act as good secondarys.
HUGE the high ammo, small precision, "fuck em all up" gun.
Scout Rifle the precise and long range sniper with longer cooldown between shots.

 [/HR]

M16

Biggest troublemaker currently in my opinion. The fact that it is the complete opposite of what it should be makes it a broken weapon in my opinion. Headshot damage is too high for a weapon that essentially shoots at a medium fire rate. Also, it seems not as precise as it should be.
Well aimed single shots often miss while spraying makes it esentially a 2-3 hit weapon. On body hits, that is stronger than the AK currently.
A headshot at close to medium range is between 65 and 80 damage most of the time and a body hit at roughly 25-40. The lack of recoil makes it incredible strong when just pressing down the mouse1 button while aiming for headshots is very inefficient as the damage falls hard over distance (roughly 10-20 damage on body hit and ~50 on headshot) and the bullet spray is to strong.

-> Increase recoil, increase distance damage, increase precision, decrease body hit damage by about 10%.

 [/HR]

Krieg 552 Commando

I like the gun, as it's a high reward, low ammo kill weapon. It's basically a deagle but instead of headshots you can just spray a full mag into the body and it still kills. The animation bugs out though because of the high firerate and therefore I suggest:

-> Lowering the firing rate slightly and increase the damage, leaving the small magazine intact.

 [/HR]

Famas

In its current state, the Famas is very unreliable. The crosshair is to big to use it on long range and the damage to low to use it for close range.

-> Remove or add something unique like burst. Otherwise, increase the ammo or decrease the crosshair size.

 [/HR]

Galil

Basically, same issue with the Famas. Feels like a poor-man's AK


 [/HR]

Shotguns

Nothing directly wrong with them, sometimes the hit detection isnt working as supposed to, due to the splitting of the damage to each individual bullet. So you can shoot somebody point blank in the body and get one body hit (16-32 damage), 2-3 arm hits and 2-3 leg hits (2-4 damage each), leaving you with roughly 40-50 damage up close. It looses fast over range so maybe increase the leg/arm damage by another 10%.


 [/HR]

MP5

It's the precise version of the SMG. The overall damage is incredibly high though and the gun feels more like a rifle than an smg.

-> Give it more recoil.
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#2 Mayhem

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    Get your facts straight

Posted 21 October 2013 - 18:40

I used to love M16 because it was very accurate weapon with a decent damage but recently, it looks like the hit detection became even worse and M16 suffers from it the most. I barely use it now. Maybe lowering the damage and increasing the accuracy might help.

I hate SG. I never manage to kill anybody with it. But that might be just my problem, other people seem to use it just fine. The firing sound is super confusing though. I never know when it shoots and when it doesn't.

Galil - weak weapon with high recoil. Famas - even weaker, almost no recoil but still pretty inaccurate for some reason.

Shotguns... One word - unreliable.

MP5 is a great weapon. It is like a superior MAC10. More accurate and maybe even stronger. Lowering the damage would be acceptable.
00:00.00 - KILL: [LDT] Mayhem [innocent] killed King Shaunus [innocent]

#3 Domnomnom

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 21:01

I would use a pistol over the FAMAS it is that bad :P

I think it should be accuracy burst weapon. On CSS that thing is like a sniper on burst mode. Sucks close up though. Should be like this on ttt.
Oui oui chevaux

#4 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 21:05

I believe FRAG was working on a huge overhaul, where every gun does what it actually does and uses the ammo it actually uses.

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#5 Mayhem

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    Get your facts straight

Posted 21 October 2013 - 21:10

Yep, we tested that on the dev server, Bob. It sucked and nobody liked it. Even FRAG admitted it.
00:00.00 - KILL: [LDT] Mayhem [innocent] killed King Shaunus [innocent]

#6 Shaunus

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 21:21

It was horrendous, didn't translate well into gmod at all XD

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#7 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 22:07

WHAT!?
But... But..
How?

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#8 Mayhem

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    Get your facts straight

Posted 21 October 2013 - 22:16

Well, most weapons became utter crap and some of them were incredibly overpowered. Nothing in between. You should have seen the autoshotty. Let's just say it didn't work out.
00:00.00 - KILL: [LDT] Mayhem [innocent] killed King Shaunus [innocent]

#9 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 22:32

That just means they weren't really fine tuned yet.
Shotguns can be really tricky to get right because every shot has 8-12 pallets.

I'm not saying they should all be like CSS, I'm saying at least make them a bit like their IRL counterparts. AK is decent already, but like Keith said, the M16 is really weird. There's not really anything in existence with that fire rate except for like, cannons.

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#10 FRAG

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    Not your normal S'H'A'R'K

Posted 21 October 2013 - 22:37

I followed official CS:S stats and real world values for all our weapons, I spent 3 months fine tuning.

Dude, It didn't work.

Keith, I'll look into it, It would seem another GMOD update has screwed with values again, I'll have to find out how to correct to give us some balance again.

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#11 Attacus

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    aka Keith.

Posted 21 October 2013 - 23:07

My offer from about a year ago still stands. I got time on my hands. Give me the raw values and I will theory-craft around it.

I started spreadsheets, extracting all the damagelogs and applying the damage dealt by each weapon but without range it is rather unprecise.
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#12 JJHK

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:59

Yep, we tested that on the dev server, Bob. It sucked and nobody liked it. Even FRAG admitted it.


I liked it. :/ Could've changed the shotgun's fire rate, but other than that I liked the realism. :c

#13 Mayhem

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    Get your facts straight

Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:19

I don't know whether it was realistic or not but I know it was not suitable for TTT at all. And I prefer gameplay to realism anyway.
00:00.00 - KILL: [LDT] Mayhem [innocent] killed King Shaunus [innocent]

#14 Unforeseen Physics

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:25

I liked it. :/ Could've changed the shotgun's fire rate, but other than that I liked the realism. :c


Realism?
I don't have a problem if that's a bonus to the game, but it should never impair the most important thing, which is balance.
We're playing a game where you can trace crime by using a hula-doll as DNA radar...

When I pick up a gun I want to know what it does, how it performs and how it can be countered. Not relish in the knowledge that it somehow vaguely resembles something I couldn't care less about.

#15 JJHK

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 13:38

Well, realism as in magazine capacity and name of the weapon. Other than that you can tell by my GMod playtime I don't really care about realism that much.

#16 Domnomnom

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 19:21

Tbf, the only areas I think should be addressed are the FAMAS and Galil. Thats not realism, that's just balance IMO.
Oui oui chevaux

#17 Trif

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    Diceroller

Posted 23 October 2013 - 20:27

Scrap all of the guns and implement Halo 2 weapons instead :D!


...that would actually be kinda cool, but rocket launcher might be a bit OP xD...

I think we should hook up an AI to the servers which is able to detect retards, displaying a message to them that they have to insert a coin to play.


#18 Danbready

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 20:35

^Genius^

Religion is like a penis;
It's good to have one, and you should be proud proud of it!
But don't go taking it out in public and don't go around shoving it down other people's throats...


#19 Wazzamaniac

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 21:58

Let's face it though, if it were realistic the M249 would be a good weapon/OP as fuck.
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#20 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 22:29

Not necessarily. If we kick in actual realism, the thing would be a bitch to carry and would probably cut the movespeed you'd have with a Mac10 in half. It's a lot harder to turn around and shoot, let alone aim, let alone handle recoil, let alone turn in tight corners.

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