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Banning system for adminmod - Brainstorm thread


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#1 Psycix

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 23:28

Purpose of this thread: Gathering ideas
Further discussion and selecting them with a TS discussion and a poll will be done later, so don't start making discussions in this thread!


At this moment the admimod (as far as it is one) makes use of source's built-in ban system, which is broken as fuck and drops bans, just like Evolve did. So, a reliable ban system is in development that makes use of the built-in SQLite database and/or the MySQL database.
First off, this is what are you going to get no matter what (if I can't build this within a few weeks, an existing adminmod will be installed):
-Reliability
-Ban by steamID
-Chat confirmation of actions

I'd like to ask you guys: What else do you want?
There are a few choices to be made which will have a direct impact on the way the bans are stored.
The following list is not to be answered one by one, but to give an idea of the possibilities, choices and problems.

General banning system considerations:
-Are bans local or global?
-Or do you want the choice of a local or global ban?
-Or are only permbans global? If so - are all permbans global?
-Can a person be locally banned AND THEN globally banned from another server? Does the global ban overwrite the local ban or do they exist next to eachother? What if it overwrites and the global ban is shorter?

Or what if we come up with a next generation justice system?
For example: Instead of dishing out kicks and bans you give someone infraction points based on their felony. The system will automatically punish and ban based on the points received, for example, once someone collects 10 points he will be banned for 24 hours.
Every common crime will have a range of points attached to it, for example, a single RDM is worth 3 points, and a traitor teamkill 3 to 5.
The plus side of a system like this is that it saves work - all you have to do is apply the infraction points and you're done.
Another advantage is that small crimes will not go unpunished. If the moderation team rotates the previous crimes are not forgotten but will be automatically accounted for when the person continues to receive infractions from different moderators.
This is just one idea of an alternative justice system. If you have any other ideas I'd love to hear them.

What do you think?



Purpose of this thread: Gathering ideas
Further discussion and selecting them with a TS discussion and a poll will be done later, so don't start making discussions in this thread!

LDT is LDT.


#2 The Time Rider

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 23:30

Add steam id bans again.


EDIT by psy:
Infraction given: read post - no smartassery

Edited by psycix, 21 May 2013 - 23:41.

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#3 Trif

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 23:42

A flexible system is a good system.
Choice between local and global bans. Global should mostly be used to perms, but there's no need to actually restrict it to that.

Player history
An easily accessible (for moderation staff, obviously) history of a player's punishment history. As slays are used for other things than punishments sometimes, the history should primarily contain mutes, kicks, and bans. The point is to easily check if the player is new or a repeating offender.
I really like the idea of an infraction system. If it is implemented, the history should simply contain the player's previous infractions - although it's not really necessary with a system like that, I guess.

I think we should hook up an AI to the servers which is able to detect retards, displaying a message to them that they have to insert a coin to play.


#4 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 23:47

I'm not much for the "revamped" system; it's too indirect.
Nonetheless, I'd still love to work with a system of infraction points, to remind moderators of previous offenses.


General banning system considerations:
-Are bans local or global?
-Or do you want the choice of a local or global ban?
-Or are only permbans global? If so - are all permbans global?
-Can a person be locally banned AND THEN globally banned from another server? Does the global ban overwrite the local ban or do they exist next to eachother? What if it overwrites and the global ban is shorter?



Both local and global bans, but only permbans are global.

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#5 Bamboy

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 00:09

I like the idea of an infraction system, although I think that people should still be able to directly kick and ban as they see fit.
Maybe kicks and bans also add infraction points?
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#6 Kronasus

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 00:21

An ability to see a users history would definitely be good! Agree with trif on that one. Should be very do-able especially with SQL.

I did not read anything whether is going to have a GUI or if it's just plain text commands. In that case I would really like to see a GUI. It's so much more user friendlier. No more asking for commands or looking it up. Just in front of your nose and complete access to every component of the admin mod from one overview

#7 Wazzamaniac

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 00:23

I think that the current, direct banning system should go side by side with an infraction system. For example:

Some one RDMs. The admin is about to slay him, but opens up a special menu (similar to the evolve menu) and sees that this person has lost 6 points for RDMing and being slain as many number of times; the admin could see this and proceed with a ban instead of a slay.

EDIT: umm, basically what Trif said.

On another note, are the mute, !g and !a commands still working?
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#8 Mayhem

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 00:28

Well arranged and easily accessible in-game ban list is necessary but I'm sure you have already got that. A ban list on the website would come is handy but it is not vital.

I like Trif's idea but don't implement it, if it is too time-consuming and would delay the completion of the adminmod even more.

If you will actually implement the infraction point system, don't forget to allow us to easily remove these points too. It might not seem necessary at first but I can already see the bad communication among ranked people and somebody being given infraction points multiple times.

EDIT: Wazza, I'm sure these commands are already a part of the adminmod. This thread's purpose is to discuss the banning system, if I got it right. Otherwise, I would have some other ideas too.
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#9 Catkillerfive

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 02:26

Global bans can be dished out if the Ban is longer that 10080 (1 week).

I think Psycix talked about that LDT will get a public ban list for everyone to review. Similar to Source Ban.



I would also like to be able to use admin commands with / in addition to !
I have a habit to use /slay *Player* instead of !slay *player*
In Admin Mod like Source Ban when I use / instead of ! the command dues not show up in chat. Making it easier for "Hidden" moderators to deal out punishments without blowing his/hers Cover.


A Ingame GUI for the admin mod and stuff is luxury, but we can start with a normal Text GUI, but can later do with a proper GUI ones we get everything back on the road and have less prioritized stuff to do.

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#10 Commander

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:20

An ability to see a users history would definitely be good! Agree with trif on that one. Should be very do-able especially with SQL.

I did not read anything whether is going to have a GUI or if it's just plain text commands. In that case I would really like to see a GUI. It's so much more user friendlier. No more asking for commands or looking it up. Just in front of your nose and complete access to every component of the admin mod from one overview


Yes, I also think a GUI would be good for when people have strange untypable names.

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#11 Patokia

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:46

How about some sort IRC on the site here? So we can see what they say on the server, and for if no mods are on that server, they can ping people in IRC, so they can get online (Or slaying/kicking/banning via IRC).
For example,
a few mods are in IRC, nobody on the TTT server.
Some people are on the TTT server, including 1 RDMer.
another person in the server is sick of him RDMing, and opens a window with everybody in IRC, clicks on a name, which causes that person get pinged.
The pinged person can get on the server, or (if possible) slay/ban the RDMer via IRC.

#12 Domnomnom

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:38

I personally hate the idea of infraction points, ngl :P

It's too complex - let's keep it simple if we want this done in a few weeks. Redesigning the way in which we punish players will take weeks of discussion and then probably months of coding. Maybe sometime in the future (although I'll still need some convincing) but for now, keep it simple?

A GUI would be a nice thing to have. But that will also take time, could one be released first without the GUI as a priority?

I think local bans only, unless you want to do a global permaban. But tbh, I think global permabans should just be something done by admins.
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#13 Mayhem

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:52

I agree with you, Dom. But I also think that the adminmod should be flexible enough to allow people to easily ban somebody globally, even though I won't probably ever use it.

And about the GUI. The only thing I have ever used from the Evolve menu was the right click on a player to copy his SteamID, which I used instead of somebody's untypable/short nickname. It would be nice to have this feature back.

EDIT: Trif, not necessary. If we'll be able to ban people who are not on the server (we probably will, since even Evolve allowed us to do so), this will be a piece of cake with !sid.
00:00.00 - KILL: [LDT] Mayhem [innocent] killed King Shaunus [innocent]

#14 Trif

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:53

This is kind of backseat moderating, but I can't see a reason not to remind everyone:
Remember, this is a brainstorm thread, not a discussion thread. Let's keep the thread clean and get creative ;)!

Now, a small suggestion:
When a player leaves, he can still be targeted by ban commands for, say, 10 minutes.
As he leaves, the server stores his ID in memory - preferably even through a map change.

Example:
Trif: Random_RDMer, why did you kill Poor_Victim?
Random_RDMer has left the server.
Trif: !ban random 2880 RDM & leave
Warning: Random_RDMer has disconnected. Type !ban to confirm the ban.
Trif: !ban
Trif banned Random_RDMer for 2880 minutes (Reason: "RDM & leave").

Might be a bit much for such a small feature, but it would be a nice luxury to have ;).

I think we should hook up an AI to the servers which is able to detect retards, displaying a message to them that they have to insert a coin to play.


#15 yagwog

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 13:18

Thats complicated as fuck trif, I think a menu like old evolve would be nice ^-^

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#16 Psycix

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 13:57

Something like Trif's functionality will be there. It simply keeps a list of people who disconnected. People get a session number, and that stays, even if they leave.

A GUI will support the functionalities, but thats for the second release.

Keep em coming guys.

LDT is LDT.


#17 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 15:00

I think "!" and "/" should do the same thing, where "@" is a silent command.
Only Moderators and higher should be able to use silent commands.

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#18 Psycix

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 15:31

I'm thinking to get rid of silent commands. If you have the need to use a command invisibly then maybe you shouldn't be using it at all.
It's a feature with potential negative consequences and barely any positive.
Though if many people feel the need for it we can open up a separate thread for this discussion.

LDT is LDT.


#19 Max

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 16:06

How about some sort IRC


Pretty sure I suggested that before, and that we wanted to do it.
Except that the server would just post messages to the IRC (because that's pretty easy to do)
You can set your IRC client to make a noise every time the server says something.

#20 Cyrill Jones

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 16:30

Maybe the invisible commands could show to the mods/admins but not to the rest of the server.

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