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Operation Black Mesa, Guard Duty


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#41 FRAG

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 19:51

even I dish out abundant criticism.


It's true, I cried when I read his comments about my work....................

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#42 Revengekeuh

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 20:10

So I found out today that a guy I know (The Comedian) is a part of this aswell! Was rather surprised to hear that! :P
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#43 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 20:38

Don't translate your content.
Don't support slowing down the internationalization.

Even though I'd love to, I've never helped expand Wikipedia articles in Dutch.
I think I'd be doing more wrong than right.

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#44 Loadingue

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 21:20

You have to understand Bob, it's not like the Netherlands everywhere. France is a desperate case. If I remember correctly, 15% of the French population can understand English, and less than 5% can speak it fluently. I've tried to understand, is it the educational system's fault? Is it the Latin roots' fault? Is it something else? I don't know. I just know it is as it is. One of the reasons I study as translator.

Regarding OBM, translating the mod to French will rise its success immensely in France.

Anyway, when you're looking for translators, I'll be available.
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#45 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 21:22

It's silly Nationalism, pretty sure.
Also apathy.

And yes, I am aware of that.
Exactly the reason I protested.

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#46 Loadingue

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 21:28

I'm not sure what caused this, but I'm 100% certain it's not nationalism. The government and schools do everything in their power to make students know English better. You have to understand, it's not as easy to learn English when you're French, than learn it when you're Dutch. You have the advantage of having a germanic language as "mother-tongue"; the French has completely different grammar rules.
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#47 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 21:44

I didn't say the apathy and nationalism applied to the government or educational system.
Just to the population.

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#48 Revengekeuh

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 21:46

How is the government doing all it can do? In Belgium the French side has an option: either learn dutch or either learn english. (That's how I've been told at least)

If they'd just MAKE them learn both languages than they'll at least able to understand English a bit.
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#49 Loadingue

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 21:57

No, they have to learn both. However, they often have to choose whether to concentrate on either. Learning the two as much as the other would be too much of a burden, probably.

My case: I chose English over Dutch. Even after studying it for over 10 years and practicing it daily, I've seen people from all over the world, sometimes half my age, not English-natives, who could speak it better than me. And in my entire life, I only know two people, born in Wallonia, who can speak English at least as well as me. More incredible considering the fact I study English at university, and I've met dozens of other students in English class. Only two of them ever were at my level.

@Bob: that's also what I meant. But it's not true. The population likes English, and hates the French language in general. But learning English is still difficult for French speakers.
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#50 Unforeseen Physics

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 22:01

Fun fact: The best way to learn English is to consume your daily dose of entertainment media in ... guess what... English.

#51 Loadingue

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 22:08

That's how I perfected my knowledge of English, but it's a vicious cycle. Most people my age are simply unable to understand the common English-speaking internet. Thus they don't go there.
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#52 Blackheart

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 22:15

Thus having translated content will allow them to continue that cycle as opposed to forcing them to attempt to deal with it.

#53 Loadingue

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 22:23

That's not how things work, and you know it. No one is going to study English harder to play OBM. And let me tell you for certain; if an official French translation isn't made, someone will make one.

Addendum:

http://www.jeuxvideo...en-francais.htm

http://www.jeuxvideo...en-francais.htm

"jeuxvideo.com" is the most popular video game website in France. If you search for Black Mesa on it, those two news (out of four) will come up. The French translation was made by a fan. An official translation was released shortly after. Make up your own conclusions.
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#54 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 02:13

Blackheart hit the nail on the head.

Of course they will, that doesn't mean you should support or condone it.
So you're doing it because you predict it is going to happen anyway? That's idiotic.

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#55 Loadingue

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 02:27

I don't understand how that's supposed to be idiotic. I offer to make an official and quality translation, rather than delaying the inevitable, so it can benefit the mod. I don't see anything wrong with that.

And I support making a translation because it's the only way. You guys have no idea how bad it is, and I do. Don't act like you know exactly what's what in this matter. In short, most French-speaking people suck at English, and OBM will be more succesful if a translation is made. That's all.
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#56 Unforeseen Physics

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 09:49

So what's the incentive for a Frenchman to learn English?
If all the media they love is available in their own language, where's the motivation to pick up the language?
The message that needs to reach these people is: Look here, buddies. French is cool and all, but you are missing out. You are only enjoying the most tiny fraction ever of what you could potentially be enjoying. Instead of visiting boring English classes, just try consuming some (if not all) of your media in English.
And this is the best way to start, even for potential lost causes. Entertainment media like books, TV, music, games, movies or anything you can imagine has unexplored power; it can hook a person, spread ideologies and ideas, inspire, manipulate; but it excels at teaching languages more so than your local school. Because all of a sudden, you don't need to study; you learn it subconsciously. I remember learning for English exams actually worsened my grade.
So, you imply it's inevitable that they won't learn English? That all hope is lost on them? True, if you we don't start here and use media as the first step.

I'm not saying I'm totally against the idea of translating, because we do what we can to please our fans, but Bob and BH do have a point (in the long run).

#57 Loadingue

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 17:37

You are right, Physics, but all things considered, not making a translation will definitely not help the project. "Let's not translate it to encourage people to learn English!" It's like saying "let's have the worst graphics possible in our game to show that it can be fun without it!" Good thing the people of Black Mesa didn't think that.
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#58 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 18:32

That's true, it might not be.
Anyway, how are people going to make translations for a game if it doesn't support it?

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#59 Loadingue

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 18:46

Well, they find a way. If the game/mod has subtitles, anyone can edit those.

(You wouldn't believe how many people asked for a voiced French version for Black Mesa. Terrifying, isn't it?)
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#60 SK_

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 18:49

Not really.
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