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In Defense of Equivalent Exchange


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47 replies to this topic

Poll: Turn Equivalent Exchange ON or OFF? (27 member(s) have cast votes)

Turn Equivalent Exchange ON or OFF?

  1. Yes (16 votes [59.26%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 59.26%

  2. No, because ... (post below) (11 votes [40.74%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.74%

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#1 Commander

Commander

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  • LocationEindhoven

Posted 05 September 2012 - 19:10

Posted Image

Stand clear for a wall of text:

*IMPORTANT* If you vote no or you vote yes please say why because I want to see why you vote yes or no :)

In recent days, I have seen a dramatic increase in the amount of servers which have disabled Equivalent Exchange by x3n0ph0b3. I wish to defend this mod, and cast off the bad reputation which it has gained.

What problems do people have with EE? Many people claim that EE allows duping, is overpowered, and is not balanced for a fun multiplayer experience.
In response to these problems: Let me begin with duping. It is undeniable that Crafting Table II leads to very simple duping. The dupe bug with this item is well known and documented. In addition, server owners are warned about this bug by a mass of red text on the Tekkit serverside download page. However, Crafting Table II is very simple to disable, and there are many posts on this very forum dealing with getting rid of it. I have seen some servers claim that there are dupe bugs pertaining to the transmutation table, and some servers even claim that you can dupe items with a Red Matter furnace (That's on purpose, you know. That's the whole point of the item). I owned a Tekkit server for a while on Tekkit 2.0, and I must honestly say that I have seen no dupe bug related to transmutation. I could be wrong, but it just doesn't seem like there is one.
In response to accusations that EE is overpowered, I say just this: try out Industrialcraft 2. If we compare items between EE and Industrialcraft 2, we come to a pretty obvious conclusion: EE equipped players can be easily defeated by a skilled Industrialcraft player, or even by Balkon's weapons mod. The Red Katar and Morningstar are easily overpowered by a powered nano-saber. Dark Matter armor is 1 shot killed by a blunderbuss, and a player in Red Matter or Gem Armor will be significantly less protected than a player in Quantum. People will bring up the example of the Abyss Helmet and Infernal Chestplate, which can shoot lightning and explode items around the player. However, players in Quantum take no damage from either, and can move at 3x the speed of a regular player running. They can also uberjump which makes them very difficult to hit with most EE attacks. Quantum armored players also take no damage from the ever powerful blunderbuss, which absolutely destroys most EE armored players. It is true that the flying physics of EE make controlled flight much easier than Jetpacks, but who honestly cares? Swiftwolf is much more expensive than a jetpack, and flight isn't really an advantage for someone with the bottom half of quantum.
My last point is that EE does NOT destroy the balance of Tekkit. In fact, it adds more complex player strategy, and is essential for incredible gameplay. In Tekkit 1.0 (which was the bomb even without EE), there was only 1 path for all players: Quantum. Everyone shot for a laser, a nano-saber, and Quantum. This made the game very unbalanced for anyone without these items, or with slightly less playtime. EE added a second path for players to take, and Balkons added another balance to EE. In a game of EE, IC2, and Balkons (a loose adaptation of rock, paper, scissors). In rock, paper, scissors, all the options are balanced, leading to the game having no optimal strategy. (I'd draw a payoff matrix, but I think you all get the idea). However, in the game of EE, IC2, and Balkons,
"RED MATTER FURNACE" is not dupe buged, It just gives double of each smelted items.
Think of it as a macerator on 40 Overclockers.

EE defeats pretty much nothing
Balkons defeats EE
and IC2 defeats EE and Balkon's


The point I have made here so far is that EE is not a powerful mod at all, despite the shear possibility of getting resources easily. However, what fun is Star Wars without a Rebel Alliance?

EE is a much better 'starting mod'. It allows players to gain amazing powers with relatively simple machines, yet without any potential to dominate the server they play on. EE is not a mod for the expert: its a mod for the beginner. It amazes, yet the skilled player can still prevail.
These very interesting game options and possibilities did not exist before EE, and do not exist on servers with it disabled. I get it that there are some purists who disable EE because they want a '1.0 ' experience. However, when admins disable EE for duping, being overpowered, and lack of game balance, I facepalm. EE is a FANTASTIC mod, with very good programming, interesting game dynamics, and much to give to Tekkit as well as Technic SSP.

This was copy pasted from the Technic forums, And gives alot of fair points in EE's Defense.

Thanks for listening!

TL;DR EE is a great mod, which, contrary to popular belief is extremely balanced and extremely fun.


-Commander

Edited by Commander, 05 September 2012 - 19:56.

76561197999667690.png

"You better add fox so you can feel normal with him" ~Dr Scheisse

"You know what would suck? If Half life 3 sucked." ~Pie

"This all wouldnt be happend." ~ eddyke1

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#2 woot835

woot835

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    Forum Regular

Posted 05 September 2012 - 19:13

*Raises flame sheild*

Serious constructive critisism please :D

/orisendthefargleshark

"Fucking butthole, Fucking ketchup"

- Loadingue 2014


#3 Demon

Demon

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    Legion Scarlett

Posted 05 September 2012 - 19:49

I do love EE and use it alot in my single player. I do have to say i don't feel that it is overpowered as it is very expensive and ment for end game useage. however i can see how having a item that gives you diamonds while your offlline on a server might appear overpowered

#4 Valikai

Valikai

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    Regular User

Posted 05 September 2012 - 19:51

I was meant to vote yes.

#5 woot835

woot835

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    Forum Regular

Posted 05 September 2012 - 19:53

Depends of the set up, If you use one MK I Energy collector and MK I Relay into a condenser, it would take you about 5 days for a stack of diamonds.

And seriosly, Dark matter will consume all the diamonds you got anyway :D

"Fucking butthole, Fucking ketchup"

- Loadingue 2014


#6 Max

Max

  • 3,257 posts

    I like rusty stuff

Posted 05 September 2012 - 19:55

EE is stupid xD

Cobblestone generator hooked up correctly can give you everything.
it's basically getting loads of stuff for doing nothing.

also, retards are going to go with EE and BuildCraft, but since buildcraft sucks -> loads of overflow everywhere.

now, Combine EE with IndustrialCraft and RedPower, you got a totally overpowered system.

Also, it is magic.
Remember how Minecraft became worse after they added magic shit ? in like 1.8 or 1.9 or something ...

Also,
Crafting Table II > EE

#7 woot835

woot835

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    Forum Regular

Posted 05 September 2012 - 19:58

Unless you have a farm of 64x64 cobble generators, You wont be getting squat of higher stuff.

And farms that big are aginst the rules.

"Fucking butthole, Fucking ketchup"

- Loadingue 2014


#8 kalle_E

kalle_E

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    The swedish dude

Posted 05 September 2012 - 20:55

The main problem you would have to fix would be that if someone like me would play i would make a FUCKTON of coal using solars.

And solars will be cheaper due to the gold and diamond transfusion thing.

By the way how doues it glitch with crafting table III ?
kalle E: ITS AWSOME ITS AWSOME
Thom : NOH YUH
Thom : wait... no no NOOOOOOOO

$k: I can't hack I don't know his password.

#9 Wazzamaniac

Wazzamaniac

  • 1,798 posts

    The moose man

Posted 05 September 2012 - 21:00

I would like more mods on the server, the thing is, lets face it, EE is completely unrealistic...
Fun, but unrealistic.

Ill vote yes and see how it turns out, however.

Ps: a musket owns the blunderbuss any day.

Edited by Wazzamaniac, 05 September 2012 - 22:09.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

#10 woot835

woot835

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    Forum Regular

Posted 05 September 2012 - 21:00

Kalle, the problem of your idea, is that You need to macerate ALL the coal, and smelt all the iron into refined iron. You cant make most stuff with EE.

And the "Gold and diamond" transfusion needs player imput, Using the pipe loop, as someone suggested in another long gone EE thread, It will be made aginst the rules, if EE would get enabled.

And I dont really know how the glitch works, But I got Twice the amount of cells when using by shift clicking. Not sure if fixed.

"Fucking butthole, Fucking ketchup"

- Loadingue 2014


#11 Hugoroy

Hugoroy

  • 671 posts

    The Silliest Filly

Posted 05 September 2012 - 21:12

hell yes!
Many thanks to Manypopes for making my awesome avatar!

psycix
- I hope a thief comes in at night, and seals your capslock and shift keys.

Dart-Lobrik - Yeah sometimes, deep inside, I feel like a little mexican pimp pedophile

#12 Psycix

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    Owner

Posted 05 September 2012 - 21:57

In offense to this debate:

In EE, diamonds are the highest rated material. (Aside from some EE specific, very expensive, stones and tools)

In industricalcraft, diamonds are easy to obtain. 3 days of play is enough to set up a factory that provides you with a steady stream of diamonds.

Combine:
Industricalcraft tons of diamonds + EE diamonds are worth a LOT = infinite hax

LDT is LDT.


#13 The Time Rider

The Time Rider

  • 1,376 posts

    Retard.

  • LocationSouth Carolina, USA

Posted 05 September 2012 - 22:01

TL;DR EE is a great mod, which, contrary to popular belief is extremely balanced and extremely fun.
-Commander

I voted yes just because every single time I play with EE I have loads of fun trying to figure out the best way to get more____(sorry its just been forever since I last played EE)
"There are times when one would like to hang the whole human race and finish the farce" -Mark Twain
“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.”-Mark Twain

#14 Wazzamaniac

Wazzamaniac

  • 1,798 posts

    The moose man

Posted 05 September 2012 - 22:09

Psycix, most of us are maxed out anyway with solar panels, where do they go from there? EE would only be the next objective.

Also, its only a game, not a competition. Youre not forced to use EE if you dont want to :P
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

#15 yagwog

yagwog

  • 6,300 posts

    fucking degenerate i'll post when i want fam ldt is shit sti

Posted 05 September 2012 - 22:11

I wan't the aether mod :V

Somthing that won't effect the game too much, i agree more mods are a good idea.

my response to vaping being "cool" tbh fam

 

"stimulates the same circuitry that was simulated when u sucked on ur mommas titty

faggot"


#16 Commander

Commander

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    You Win or You Die

  • LocationEindhoven

Posted 05 September 2012 - 22:15

well maybe we could just make a seperated world with ee enabled in that world? ( Just a suggestion )

76561197999667690.png

"You better add fox so you can feel normal with him" ~Dr Scheisse

"You know what would suck? If Half life 3 sucked." ~Pie

"This all wouldnt be happend." ~ eddyke1

"Tachibana.♥: Im German remember
Tachibana.♥: Heil Hitler."

Join Dropbox now! :)

Spoiler

#17 Wazzamaniac

Wazzamaniac

  • 1,798 posts

    The moose man

Posted 05 September 2012 - 23:19

Well, could that other world be an exact copy of the current one?

It would also be confusing, i think it should be with or without, not both :P
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

#18 Ofarlig

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    Forum Regular

Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:37

No, because it would further make the game too easy. Using a full industrial craft pack already makes the game way too easy. I would say shit like Mass Fabricators need to be disabled so theres some sort of challenge in playing.

#19 Bo98

Bo98

  • 274 posts

    aka BoA98

Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:14

That poll just confuses me. :P

I assume no = off and yes = on

#20 Max

Max

  • 3,257 posts

    I like rusty stuff

Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:48

5 UU = 2 Iron ore = 4 Iron Ingots
81 UU = 1 Diamond Block = 73728 EMC
Iron Block = 2304 EMC
73728/2304 = 32 Iron Blocks * 9 = 288 Iron Ingots

to get 288 Iron Ingots using UU:
288/2 = 144 Iron Ore
144*5UU = 720 UU
 [/HR]
Summing it up :
With EE:
81 UU = 288 Iron Ingots
Without EE:
720 UU = 288 Iron Ingots

That's an increase of 789%

Basically, fucking overpowered.




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