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The Ultimate TTT Weapon Suggestion Thread.


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#1 FRAG

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 13:57

I read and I listened, I ran around asking a select group of people and here it is.

This thread is our own place to discuss the various weapons that are either in the game or need to be brought in from CS:S or created out of magic.

Rules:
  • No warz, I will delete your posts if you start them.
  • Be constructive (Remember the FRAG mantra "I don't work with it's shit, I work with it's shit because")
  • Clear written statements, no walls of text please!
  • Don't ask for dates, If I have not stated one then it's not ready!
  • NO AK 47 RAGE TALK, I want constructive AK 47 Talk.
  • Jackie Chan
  • SHARK TRUMPS ALL!!


List of weapons Accepted:
  • Silenced Sniper



List of weapons Denied:

And remember to have fun and enjoy the Nilla wafer top hat time!

Edited by FRAG, 14 April 2012 - 14:22.

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#2 TheMelonMan

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    ayyyy

Posted 13 April 2012 - 13:58

I would like the dildo cannon back :(

Yeah because I wasn't the was I?!?

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#3 TwoMike

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 13:58

It would be nice the see the Galil in the game, but with reduced damage and less accuracy, because of it's larger ammo count. Thoughts on this?
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#4 Valikai

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 14:03

3 Burst Famas.
We can make the famas accurate with a moderate amount of damage.

#5 Badgers

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 14:05

What would be "peng" is if the M16 had a burst fire alt mode. It could reduce damage, accuracy and whatever. But I just want it to have burst.
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#6 TwoMike

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 14:14

It could reduce damage, accuracy and whatever.


Or it could have a longer time in-between bursts?
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#7 Badgers

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 14:23

So overall decreased rate of fire, but burst? Sounds awesome. :D
I'd rather it had slightly increased accuracy, though, but higher recoil, so it decreases quickly.
hiddentext

#8 ILoveHobo

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 14:52

I would like a silent weapon for the traitor's(Yes I know theres the pistol) but I think a silent rifle would be really good as with a pistol you cant really do a lot of damage.
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#9 Blackheart

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 14:54

The pistol does 76 +- 2 damage in a headshot and you say it can't dish out that much damage? XD

#10 ILoveHobo

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 14:55

The pistol does 76 +- 2 damage in a headshot and you say it can't dish out that much damage? XD


Oh I didnt realise that, but I still think a silent rifle would be good
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#11 Valiant

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 15:24

How about some stronger melee weapons that can be found? Like instead of 20 damage to 30.
Of course, lower spawn frequency and maybe 40 damage but lower swing rate?

#12 ThomEgemcity

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 15:29

What about a grenade launcher?

Takes what ever grenade you have, launches it with relatively high force, enabling you to fire discombobs onto a roof, or incendiary grenades into a room.

#13 Attacus

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 15:30

Just me discussing weapons...

I dont know the numbers so dont blame me. This is just general perception of how the weapons behave ingame

What we got vs what we lack:

# Pistols
- Glock (High Fire Rate, low accuracy, CQ, low damage)
- Standard Pistol (High Ammo, decent/good accuracy, CQ + small distance, lower average damage)
- Deagle (Low Ammo, good accuracy, all distances, good damage)
- Brain Buster [D] (Same as deagle, fire damage)
- Silenced Pistol [T] (High Ammo, decent/good accuracy, small + medium distance, decent damage, silenced)

So what we dont have is:
- Burst action pistol (3 shots fired, low accuracy, 12 per mag/36 (3 mags) shots, deagle ammo, decent damage (CQ HS is kill, accurate until mid-range, about 80 damage when all 3 shots hit body)
- Tazer [D] (Infinite ammo, recharge time, 20 damage (so it counts as RDM to use on innos), forces target to drop gun and go holstered, good accuracity, low range)

--------------------------------

# SMG
- P90 (high capacity, decent accuracy, low damage)
- mac10 (high capacity, low accuracy, decent damage)
- Aug (decent capacity, terrible accuracy without zoom, zoom+stable accuracy, long range, decent damage)
- ump [D] (decent capacity, decent accuracy, low damage, slow (?))
- HUGE (it's just the huge. extreme high accuracy, no spare ammo, decent damage, low accuracy)

So what we dont have is:
- Famas (burst mode, decent capacity, low accuracy without iron sight, decent accuracy with iron sight, decent damage)

--------------------------------

# Shotguns
- Pumpgun (decent capacity, decent accuracy, high damage)
- Autoshotgun (decent capacity, low accuracy, high damage)

So what we dont have is:
- Impactgun (low capacity, decent accuracy, low damage, strong knockback on enemy hit)

--------------------------------

# Snipers
- Rifle (decent capacity, good accuracity, good damage)
- AWP [T] (2 shots, no ammo, good accuracy, wobbly aim, instagib)

So what we dont have is:
- Autosniper (decent/high capacity, low accuracy, decent damage)
- Silenced Sniper (low capacity, good accuracy, long time between shots, decent damage, silenced)

--------------------------------

# Rifles
- AK (decent capacity, decent accuracy, decent fire rate, decent damage)
- m16 (decent capacity, good accuracy, semi-automatic, decent damage)

So what we dont have is:
- (Galil)/FAL (single shot, good accuracy, low fire rate, good damage)


--------------------------------
--------------------------------


OP discussion and improvement options:

# Pistols

People clearly favor the deagle since it has the best damage output generally speaking and headshots are almost always instagib.
The problem is that any other pistol usually loses against a deagle (depending on player skill but generally speaking here).
Nerfing the deagle would be something that really has to be done in a very thoughtful way. Simply lowering the damage would take away the effect, giving it even less ammo would be an option but not the best way imo. Nerfing the accuracity is just wrong. Especially when the new server box comes into action and the game is less laggy, deagle will be superior to any other handgun.
Therefore: increase the time between the shots to simply remove the option to kill 2-3 people that are all facing their backs to you with headshots WITHOUT nerfing the one-shot-one-kill option. This should be possible and also make the other pistols more attractive to people that need to fight multiple enemies with low health or simply take the pistol as a second gun when in a big fire fight and running out of ammo in your primary.

A burst damage hand gun would be an option for people that want something inbetween a deagle and a standard pistol. When being close, the gun can deal quite alot of damage, but unlike all the other guns it deals far less damage over distance and is less accurate. I even suggest changing the glock to burst mode and remove automatic pistols completely.


# SMG

When talking about SMGs, my first thought is: okay, mac10 and P90 are pretty similar. Both allow a shit ton of kills on CQ, are okay on mid range but arent as strong as rifles but with higher capacity and fire rate. AUG is a compromise between rifles, snipers and smgs which could deal slightly more damage over range (zoomed) since its rather useless in CQ. The problem with AUG is not the forced zoom, but more the fact that it's very unattractive due to rather loud and destinct sound and not so good accuracity over long range. It's neither a smg, nor a sniper, nor a rifle. It's simply not attractive enough. It should reward people that use it as a precission gun over range and still give them the option to use it in CQ.
But most of all, the UMP needs a rework. It's not worth a credit when not desperately in need of a gun as a D. While the damage is okay to take down one target in one clip most of the time, the slow should be much more effective so it's rather used as a utility weapon.


# Shotguns

Shotguns work fine as they are. Headshots are superior damage, CQ is supreme. The only problem might be the fact that you can still do 80+ damage with headshots over mid range or even long range. Although these moments are pretty rare they still happen and are annoying as fuck. Shotguns should be CQ and CQ only.
There is not much to add to shotguns. The idea with the shotgun (steam/scare shotgun I called it) that kinda replaces the newton launcher and is based on a 2 shot mag with therefore a maximum of 6 shots, long reload time and smaller knockback was something I came up with a while ago and liked it alot. Simply because a newton launcher is not attractive enough, deals no real damage and the push is either too strong or most of the time too short and recharge takes quite a long time.


# Snipers

Rifle and AWP work fine imo. There is nothing that has to be changed here. I don't really like the idea of an auto-sniper but it could be an idea for a traitor gun so people that are planning on assassinating multiple people have a valid option. To balance things out, autosnipe hs shouldnt be instakill, rather deal 90 damage max. And you should need at least 3 body hits to kill a target (or hs + body hit). Since it's loud and has ~15 shots (max 45 spare with 3 ammo boxes) it's not necessarily OP... but can be seen as rather annoying.
Balancing an autosniper would be easy by chaning the ammo numbers.


# Rifles

AK OP AK OP AK OP... no.. really. it's strong. Not because it's supreme to other guns but simply because it has no weakness. Anyone can use it to get kills. By spraying you are guranteed a hit. It's fairly accurate when spraying and probably the best gun while people are lagging. Because you dont really need good aim to hit shit. In numbers, the AK seems okay. I wouldnt mind seeing the numbers drop a little. Just slightly less damage and it would be perfect. But compare it to a m16 and it becomes a shit gun in theory. The m16 is slightly more accurate and has a lot less recoil. With a slower trigger you can easily land 3-4 headshots per mag and therefore more kills per magazine. But just because it takes a longer time to burst through a magazine than with an AK, it seems less attractive. Especially when lagging the AK is the better choice. What we might need is another option to the AK, something that does decent damage while having a okay fire rate and good accuracy. To balance, the headshot damage should be level to the normal damage (just the way AK should be). So basically, another AK. Why? Because the issue with the AK is the fact that not everybody can have one and those who have are superior to those who dont. Most of the time. But then, I also dont agree to the fact that there should be the same gun twice.
Rather add a similar m16, simply with only single shot option, more damage, more accuracy, no forced zoom on iron sight but with terrible accuracy (huge crosshair) when not in iron sight.


--------------------------------------------------------------


so yeah. discuss.

Edited by Attacus, 13 April 2012 - 15:43.

How many ranked players did it take to deal with a simple RDM? 3-4 Trusteds and a Moderator

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#14 ILoveHobo

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:10

NGL, I agree with everything Keith says!
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#15 Catkillerfive

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:47

I + Suppor the: Galil/FAL suggestion as well as the Auto/Silenced sniper.
The Galil/FAL because it's bad ass, as well as it have 5 extra round's so you may be able to kill that Noob T/D that shot you.
The sniper's because we need more (OP) long range weaponery, but I suggets having the Silensed Sniper a 2 point item as with a steady hand, it can be realy OP, like REALY OP!

My suggestion of my own: Increasing the clip of the P90 back to 50 pr mag for a trade off with lowed damage and/or accuracy.

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#16 FRAG

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:25

I will never make anything in the menu 2 credits, it drastically alters game play and I've seen BKU provide shit ton of examples to prove that theory.

Moving on.

Interesting suggestions so far, I'm seeing a nice range of suggestions that all pretty much point to the same thing other's want (Not going to lie but it makes my life easier)

@Melon The dildo cannon xD Man I would love to bring that back one day and maybe I will but at the moment it needs a bit of a re work.

@The rest of you and your CS:S weapon suggestions, I did work on a few CS:S weapons before, the Famas, Galil and autosniper are actually sat in an abandoned FRAG Pack weapon update folder, They will be worked on and released but I want more statistical feedback on other weapons first before putting them on the bench again.

Keith, thank you for that awesome post, I've copied it offline to build some data from it ^^

Keep it coming guys, the more input you give, the more data I get which equals to a better system for all :)

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#17 Attacus

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:35

CQ = Close Quarters btw in case you didnt get that one :>
How many ranked players did it take to deal with a simple RDM? 3-4 Trusteds and a Moderator

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#18 ThomEgemcity

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:36

Y U NO notice grenade launcher? :/

#19 FRAG

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:36

I know what CQ is don't worry :P

@Thom, a nade launcher? Really?

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#20 woot835

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:36

*Sees Frag's thread*
*Starts cheering for autosnipers, while Thom and Twomike are going "FFFFFUUUUUUU-"

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