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Suggestions and whatnot, from the expert ;D


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#1 Arex

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 04:48

To grief one doesn't need many props. A few of the largest ones will do.
I think that argument for prop-payment is therefor invalid. Propspam should be discouraged in other ways.

And when the price per prop is so low, why not just make it free?
Meh it actually doesn't really matter I guess.

Correct, and I agree with Psy. Most popular servers do NOT employ a charge per prop mechanism. However, the reason you WOULD do so, is to employ a realism aspect into the game; you can only build so much when you start out, then as you become more prominent and have more money, you can eventually move on to bigger and better bases and shops.

My recommendation is to not have a charge per prop, however. Also, the prop limit should be around 30-50, depending on how stable the server is and how much it can handle.

I also have a slight qualm about the money printer cooler and money printer collector items; although it does give a little more depth (and price) required to use money printers, I don't think it's worth it. It stops new players from being able to afford money printers for even longer, and it really doesn't add much to the gameplay. Instead, money printers should be available to standalone (in my opinion, of course) and the cooler/collector feature shouldn't be utilized until everything about the RP is balanced, classes are finished, prices are set, etc.

Next on the agenda: Shipments. Many of the servers I've played on have the following system set into place. This is just an example, obviously.

Say for example I'm a gun salesman (weapon dealer, etc etc) and I'm selling guns. I can either choose to buy SINGLE weapons (say, a shotgun for 400) or I can choose to buy a SHIPMENT of weapons (Say, that same shotgun as a shipment for 3000 for 10 of them, making the price 300 each.)

Now, this gives a lot of playability and competition between salesmen; obviously, the person who bought the shipment will be able to sell at a lower price. However, because they have a shipment rather than just single weapons, there's more risk in doing so (ex, if he's robbed or killed, someone can steal the entire shipment, and he's left with nothing) and this gives a great deal of playability as the gun dealers. I've seen entire economies based off of this fact alone.

Now, a variation of this would be to only allow certain types of weapons to be bought alone (singles) and other, more powerful weapons, have to be bought in shipments. Example: pistols can be bought alone, but rifles have to be bought in shipments. This allows pistols to be more popular among gun dealers, and allows for variations in the weapons in the game (since if you buy a shipment, you have to sell them all - Different gun dealers will sell different items)

And speaking of being killed, this brings me to my next point: People should not drop their weapons when they die.

You might ask, why is that? Well, because it breaks down the economy and stops gun dealers from making as much money as they should. Allow me to explain.

When someone dies, if the weapon disappears, then they must go out and buy another weapon (or at least take one from their shipments, etc) allowing the guns to be used up and allowing for free flow of the gun-related economy. if the guns do NOT disappear upon death, then they stay IN the game. For example, if there are 10 people on the server, and they've all bought a gun, then there will technically be no reason for any of them to buy a gun; no matter how many times they die, there will always be 10 guns in existence on the server, so hypothetically, the gun dealer would just go out of business, because the market is over saturated and he has no one to sell to. This isn't even considering the possibility that certain jobs (ex, police officers) spawn with weapons. If one of them dies on the job (or the potential of minging doing this) then they drop a weapon, which can then be picked up by someone, leading to free guns for everyone! That's not good for any economy. (Plus, it leads to police officers dying, keeping all the weapons stockpiled, then changing class and keeping all the handy dandy guns to themselves)

Edit number 5: Although I cant test this right now (because no one else is in the server) there's one more thing I want to mention. This is a big debate among different servers, and it makes a big difference in the gameplay for police officers; do you need a warrant in order to arrest someone and send them to jail? For example, if I see someone robbing a bank, can i just run up to him and hit him with my arrest baton, or do I have to go through and get a warrant for him first, potentially alerting him to the fact that I'm coming to arrest him? On the other hand, if you don't require a warrant, there's always the potential of accidental arrests (someone walks in front and BAM, arrested) as well as minge police officers, arresting for no reason. That's one thing I wanted to bring up, I don't know what the server is set to ATM.

Edit number 9001: I just tried going onto police class, and the first thing I noticed, is that the police officer weapon load out is EXTREMELY overpowered. They do NOT need to be running around with mp5s - If they need weaponry that heavy, they can buy their own weapon from a gun dealer (thereby contributing to the economy) - They should be starting out with a pistol, rather than a submachine gun. That allows them average survivability, and gives them room for improvement. Also, the flash grenade seems extremely unnecessary. I see it as being more of a minge tool than anything else.

Another thing about police officers is whether they should be allowed to unfreeze props with the battering ram. The positive of this, is it allows police officers to break into people's houses (in the name of justice, of course) and take down keypadded doors, for example. The problem with this is with mingy police officers - They'll destroy someone's entire base, just because they can, or they might unintentionally destroy the base as well.

Recommended General Rules

Obviously, these rules are VERY generic, and are just examples of some of the rules that should be employed.

-No Metagaming (That includes talking OOC about in character things, as well as using numpad to open doors, abusing keypads or fading doors, etc.)
-No RDM (This is basic - you must have a reason to kill someone. The basis of every RP server.)
-No random arrests/warrants - You must have a defend-able reason for arresting or warranting someone, in case an admin asks.
-Keypad Door Rules - Ex, maximum of 2 keypadded doors per base, with a minimum open time of 4 seconds. They must be visible (hidden keypads allowed?) and possible to use.
-No prop abuse (This includes prop pushing, spamming, blocking, trapping, etc)
-Admin's word is law (If he tells you your base has a propblock, remove it.)
-No invisible props (?)
-Your base must have at LEAST one fully accessible entrance - More than one is allowed (and if you have one entrance, you may block off others as you wish)
-Your base must also be accessible by ONE person - There should be no buttons that require multiple people to enter, etc.
-No outrageous bases (ex, 5000 props, takes up half the map, etc)
-No claiming "areas" or entire sections of the map for yourself (however, if it's for a gang, this could be allowed)
-No purchasing doors in other people's bases/buildings
-No building in other people's areas without permission
-Play as your JOB - Doctors don't steal, police can't have money printers, etc (an exception is thieves being able to sell things that they have stolen, ex: a shipment of stolen weapons)

Thats all i can think of atm ^^

Obviously, these are just the suggestions and opinions that i could think of from playing for about an hour by myself on the server. There are a LOT more things that I have to say from experience, and if you have a question/comment/etc about anything I said, or want to know my opinion on something, feel free to ask away. ^^

Edited by Arex, 03 April 2011 - 05:04.


#2 Deadlycupcakemix

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 09:40

I know what I am doing because I had my own popular rp server. But Gio seems to struggle with some things that are just better then he wants it.


And thank you for making a rule list, now I don't have to type it on my own <3.

I made police weaponry so extreme as they always get asswhooped when gangsters are fully equipped.

Edited by Deadlycupcakemix, 03 April 2011 - 10:00.

Because evil always finds a way.

#3 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 11:27

TL;DNR

Like I care this much about the RP, I'll make a better one when I graduated. DarkRP sucks balls anyway.

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#4 my_hat_stinks

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 12:23

And speaking of being killed, this brings me to my next point: People should not drop their weapons when they die.

You might ask, why is that? Well, because it breaks down the economy and stops gun dealers from making as much money as they should. Allow me to explain.

When someone dies, if the weapon disappears, then they must go out and buy another weapon (or at least take one from their shipments, etc) allowing the guns to be used up and allowing for free flow of the gun-related economy. if the guns do NOT disappear upon death, then they stay IN the game. For example, if there are 10 people on the server, and they've all bought a gun, then there will technically be no reason for any of them to buy a gun; no matter how many times they die, there will always be 10 guns in existence on the server, so hypothetically, the gun dealer would just go out of business, because the market is over saturated and he has no one to sell to. This isn't even considering the possibility that certain jobs (ex, police officers) spawn with weapons. If one of them dies on the job (or the potential of minging doing this) then they drop a weapon, which can then be picked up by someone, leading to free guns for everyone! That's not good for any economy. (Plus, it leads to police officers dying, keeping all the weapons stockpiled, then changing class and keeping all the handy dandy guns to themselves)


You're missing one important factor here:
The killer gets the gun
Since the killer already has a gun, that gives him 2 guns
If the killer dies, he only drops whatever he's holding, and sometimes that isn't even a gun (Eg he drops physgun or lockpick or toolgun)

#5 Arex

Arex

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    Awesome.

Posted 03 April 2011 - 13:38

I know what I am doing because I had my own popular rp server. But Gio seems to struggle with some things that are just better then he wants it.


And thank you for making a rule list, now I don't have to type it on my own <3.

I made police weaponry so extreme as they always get asswhooped when gangsters are fully equipped.


Police can buy their own weapons, they don't need "extreme" weapons. They can buy the same things as the gangsters, and at the same price (Gun dealers can give them a discount, whatever) but they shouldn't be able to get those kids of weapons from spawning, ESPECIALLY with dropping them upon death.

That rule list is way too generic to use. Lemme know when you're writing MOTD and I'll make a regularly formatted one.

And yes, I owned a chain of popular RP servers (3 of them with 40 slots always filled) as well as being admin/moderator for about 5 others. :P

And this is @ Hat's post:

And you, as a thief, are going to run around robbing people with a lockpick?

Plus, it brings in new-player minginess - Some guy will propkill to take someone else's gun rather than buying one, and that's just not acceptable at all. It's like dropping money upon death, it gives a REASON to kill someone. Someone has an m4 and you have a pistol? Why not kill him and steal it? I guarantee someone will list that as an RP reason to kill someone.

#6 Deadlycupcakemix

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 13:59

You are right at the police part and the gun dropping will be removed.
Because evil always finds a way.

#7 Jackeh

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 16:23

Meh, I don't have much to say, I prefere Build RP's, I never like using premde buildings :(

#8 Deadlycupcakemix

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 17:05

Meh, I don't have much to say, I prefere Build RP's, I never like using premde buildings :(


The problem with that is, that people are more building than rping.
Because evil always finds a way.

#9 Marmite

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 18:01

-Keypad Door Rules - Ex, maximum of 2 keypadded doors per base, with a minimum open time of 4 seconds. They must be visible (hidden keypads allowed?) and possible to use.


I don't like this rule, for the sheer fact I'd like a weapon store as a weapons seller plus you need for entrance/exits to your base you need 2 keypads PER DOOR! Otherwise people can't get out the you're not there ie, a robber otherwise they will moan its blocking if they can't get out, so in total I'd need 5 or 6 keypads!

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#10 Alexx

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 18:28

Is there a posibility of getting a larger map employed?

Mabey a half brp and half drp? So people could choose to use a premade house or make their own.. And if the map was bigger we could add the car dealer?

Maybe this map? http://www.garrysmod...a=view&id=71351

It has half pre made buildings and a large open grass area, very flat but could be fun for all..

Just a suggestion but i personally fine rp downtown a little cramped..
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[20:45] <LDT|SourGoat> Gio, alexx is suppsoed to request the emo stuff

#11 Psycix

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 18:58

If I ever make my own RP map it has buidlings, and plots where you can build your own.

LDT is LDT.


#12 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 19:17

I prefer Build RP

Posted Image

The problem with that is, that people are more building than rping.


@Marmite, Get a button to upon up from the inside instead, it's way easier.

@Alexx, NO! No BuildRP, end of story. We have a (space)Build, AND an RP.
I think there's even enough room to make your own contraptions in Downtown!
Like Deadly said, we want Roleplay, not "Yeah I'll sell you your guns in an hour, gotta finish my shop first."

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#13 Gio!?

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 19:59

tldnr

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#14 Marmite

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 20:16

@Marmite, Get a button to upon up from the inside instead, it's way easier.


I couldnt see a button option to be honest, this is my first time in DarkRP and Hoba was helping me yesterday. Also I would still want a third keypad so I have a secure weapon store!

@Deadly People are mostly building at the moment because it's a new server and like me I want to build a shop for my weapons then once I've built it I will adv dupe it and then will never have to build it again.

-No claiming "areas" or entire sections of the map for yourself (however, if it's for a gang, this could be allowed)


Just read this one, does this include traders/weapons sellers claiming areas/buildings as their shops??

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#15 Psycix

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 20:21

tldnr

STFU troll
It is obvious that it is long, and we don't care that you don't read it.
This thread is a serious, deep, discussion about the development direction of the RP server and if there are too many words for you then don't reply. Also you parrot.



:)
Gio: *Cries in corner*

Edited by Gio!?, 03 April 2011 - 20:41.

LDT is LDT.


#16 Hardcore Bob

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 20:48

@Marmite, I think he meant sections of the map, like roads and town squares. You can always claim a building of course, you don't need a purpose for that.

I must say, I didn't read it either, that is because I don't want to discuss too much about RP, because 9/10 times my answer is:
"Yeah, that would be cool." or "No, that's not necessary, I'd just make ... etc."

The fact is, it remains DarkRP, which is very limited in many aspects.

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#17 Arex

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    Awesome.

Posted 03 April 2011 - 23:07

I don't like this rule, for the sheer fact I'd like a weapon store as a weapons seller plus you need for entrance/exits to your base you need 2 keypads PER DOOR! Otherwise people can't get out the you're not there ie, a robber otherwise they will moan its blocking if they can't get out, so in total I'd need 5 or 6 keypads!


Marmite, let me explain the extent of this rule.

For entrances and exits, yes, you need 2 keypads per door, I am not limited KEYPADS (sorry, typo)

The rules limit the amount of FADING DOORS you may have to ENTER YOUR BASE. That does NOT apply to things like say, a dropbox (so you can transfer money and guns safely) or a window, or anything that is NOT used to enter YOUR BASE.

For example, say I am a gun dealer. I can have TWO FADING DOORS to enter the "employees" area, but I may also have a fading door to only allow one person to enter the trading area at a time, I can have a fading door for a counter window so people can't shoot me, etc (although I recommend you use buttons for these)

However, it does not allow the amount of keypads - sorry if I mistyped. After all, you can have 2 keypads per door (one to get in, one to get out)

Sorry if I confused you on that one. Thanks for pointing it out :)


EDIT:

Also, @Bob

I think DarkRP is a very open ended system, especially considering we can add our own classes, etc etc. It's sort of like managing your own city, and it gives an OBJECTIVE to playing; to make money etc etc. In a build server, there's no real objective, you just show creativity, whereas in an RP server, you bring that creativity to life; you create a system so that people don't steal from you, you create a shop to maximize profits, etc!

In that respect, I think DarkRP is very interesting, and it's why so many people constantly play it; it brings a new experience all the time, and forces you to come up with new ideas and utilize them.

#18 my_hat_stinks

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 00:32

Also, @Bob

I think DarkRP is a very open ended system, especially considering we can add our own classes, etc etc. It's sort of like managing your own city, and it gives an OBJECTIVE to playing; to make money etc etc. In a build server, there's no real objective, you just show creativity, whereas in an RP server, you bring that creativity to life; you create a system so that people don't steal from you, you create a shop to maximize profits, etc!

In that respect, I think DarkRP is very interesting, and it's why so many people constantly play it; it brings a new experience all the time, and forces you to come up with new ideas and utilize them.


Mm...

I think Bob was more saying he didn't like DarkRP in particular, not that he didn't like rp
Your reply is just generic pro-roleplay rather than pro-darkrp

#19 Arex

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 00:51

Oh, my bad then. I don't really have a preference for/against DarkRP instead of other RP systems. ^^

Another thing I noticed; I like the fact that some items (Coolers, collectors, pot, etc) stay after death - That means if you steal someone else's and they rage quit, you get to keep the items. However, the problem with this at the moment, is that coolers and collectors are INDESTRUCTIBLE, and they DO NOT DISAPPEAR under ANY CONDITIONS. Obviously, this is going to lead to a HUGE amount of them being EVERYWHERE. They should both be destroyable, and expire if they're not connected to a printer (might take some coding, but it's possible :P)

Also, the message that pops up telling you a charge has been used is always off by 1 count.

Edited by Arex, 04 April 2011 - 03:56.


#20 Arex

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    Awesome.

Posted 05 April 2011 - 14:02

Bump.

Also, something about NLR needs to be added to the rules. I assume we should make the rule 5 minutes, but I'll leave it at your discretion.




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